City of God is much more often read, quoted, and enjoyed than any of the earlier apologetic works we've looked at. Why do you think this is so? Give an example of one or two Augustine quotes/ideas that you think might have lasting appeal.
Tuesday, July 8, 2014
St. Augustine's City of God
City of God is much more often read, quoted, and enjoyed than any of the earlier apologetic works we've looked at. Why do you think this is so? Give an example of one or two Augustine quotes/ideas that you think might have lasting appeal.
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I have heard of and read brief summaries of Augustine's "City of God" before and it offers a much easier perspective to see. The total anthology of books read together like chapters, with one book presenting or refuting a certain point and the follow-up book giving the reasoning behind such. It gives a clear start, end, and justification as to what happens to the Two Cities because of where their motivations lie.
ReplyDeleteI especially like the question that the summary of Book 12 presents: "Whence is there in some a good, and in other an evil will?" "What is the reason of the blessedness of the good, and the misery of the evil?"
Could it be Materialism vs. "treasures in heaven?"
I hope the question of Good and Evil goes a lot deeper than just materialism, but I like your comments.
DeleteI think City of God is often read, quoted, and enjoyed because it deals with spiritual/religious life AND secular life. It's applicable to a wide range of situations today. Like, good and wicked men, vices, false Christians, and those who profess to be good Christians but are not.
ReplyDeleteI particularly liked Book I Chapter XXXV at the very end of the section in the Bush anthology. St. Augustine warns that bad people are among us and look like you and me. "These men you may to-day see thronging the churches with us, tomorrow crowding the theatres with the godless. But we have less reason to despair of the reclamation even of such persons, if among our most declared enemies there are now some, unknown to themselves, who are destined to become our friends." He says good/evil will always be intertwined. I liked this a lot because it's so relevant today because many people hide behind the guise of money, good looks, church attendance, or whatever.
I also think City of God is quoted so much because it's beautifully written and easy to read and understand.
It seems to me “City of God” is popular and timeless because it speaks to all people and is applicable to all times. The nature of mankind is to bend and sway with each passing breeze, never taking solid root. Laws, opinions, rulers and governments and even churches have and always will change to match the sway of mankind at the time. Augustine does not believe it was ever intended to be this way. He compares the one righteous God of Christianity with numbers in a very logical and simple way. There is no grey area with numbers, the results of all equations, rather simple or complex, are always the same, year after year, century after century. If any equation ever results in a different answer it is because of error in the working of the equation. Augustine writes “Will anyone doubt that it is better to live by an unshakeable moral conviction than to live by a code of ethics that changes with every difficulty of life?” That speaks loudly today just as it did in Augustine’s time. Despite mankind’s nature to sway with the times, it is also a deep desire in mankind to seek truth and stability in a higher power or God. By use of rational thought and logic, he successfully argues the existence of a one, true God that is unchanging. Just as people were drawn to that then, so people are drawn to that same concept today. The impact of his writings and the way he presents his ideas speak just as loudly today.
ReplyDeleteI did not read all of Aquinas’s City of God but I did some random readings and I thought they focused on making sure people believed the right way. It was not a defense of Christians or Christianity from outside forces but more an effort to make sure all the Christians understood the scriptures correctly. I am sure Christians of today can find solace in the readings.
ReplyDeleteJerry Taylor
I believe that one of Augustine subjects, he was trying to disprove the theroy that Christians are the reason for the problems in the world. This is directed at Pagans because they believe that the probelms are coming from not being able to pray to thier own gods. He even makes out the arguement that bad things happen to people good or bad, and that all Paganisim did was corrupt the people of Rome. Trent Dean
ReplyDeleteI also feel that this is Augustine's strongest argument. His explanation on the sacking of Rome convinced me. It's a three part attack that ends up pointing the figure back at the Romans/Pagans. First, this bad crap happened when Rome was Pagan. My favorite, the Romans spared no conquered, even in their temples of worship...and last, most famous explanation, and bringing it into 21st Century terms "It is what it is!" Maybe more like "It could always be worse" but I like that other cliche phrase better.
DeleteAugustine's appeal comes from the fact that he doesn't attack people by calling them stupid. He doesn't just say, it's dumb to think like pagans. He uses their arguments and pokes various holes through them, but is not insulting. When speaking about "fate" a pagan would deify the word. "O the fates saved me" or "I have a cursed fate."
ReplyDeleteAugustine leans on the side of the stoics for a number of corrections to other pagan beliefs. I loved his argument when he says "Christians believe they have free will and that God knows what we will do anyways." Hard argument, but it is saying that once we become Christian then we will act Christian. We have the free will to exercise our faith every day.
I just don't get it; I mean, I get it, but I still don't get it. I was reading Augustine's explanation of administering correction to bad and good together. I think his point that no one is innocent of sin is spot on. Any man who says he has committed no sin has just committed one, lying. His statement basically says, the scripture foretells of God's wrath and judgment so who dare think they are above it? I can wrap my brain around that. I'm a sinner, but how does that bring a person comfort? How does that strengthen my faith?I'm not sure if this helps or hurts my argument, but I'm drawn to Abraham's pleas to God not to destroy Sodom for the sake of...eventually one pure soul. Man pleas for his fellow man, but it's not enough.
ReplyDeleteGenesis 18:26-29 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, What if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people? “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.” Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there? He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
Let's just say, this story is not one I will be reading my children at bed time.
I think that City of God is often read and enjoyed today because, although he is addressing specific events, he describes types of situations that happen in life that people can relate to. In the first book, he talks about victims of rape. I think that this passage, which explains that the victims of rape are not 'defiled' or 'soiled' would bring some semblance of comfort to individuals who have gone through an experience like that. His writing, while very clear on the beliefs of Christians, is also very compassionate. Claire DeMilia
ReplyDeleteThe City of God as a whole to be honest is pretty interesting it does give us as the readers different stories as well as situations that us the reader can relate to. For example, in Book 2 of "The city of God". Augustine talks about and references a lot in this book "Ignorance of Man" referring i assume to the Romans. Romans during those times has so many religions during that time. Greek Gods where many and Christianity only had one GOD. I like how Augustine gives the reader a good explanation on what Christians should be doing and as a Christian I have learned a lot.
ReplyDeleteIn Book I, Chapter XIV of Augustine’s The City of God, he writes, “Daniel was a captive; so were other prophets: and God, the comforter, did not fail them. And in like manner He has not failed His own people … He … did not abandon the prophet [Jonah] in the belly of a monster.” I can’t think of many other ideas that have had a longer-lasting appeal than the belief that no matter what, and no matter where, one can turn to God for comfort. Life can throw a lot of horrible things our way, and having the faith that God will not fail us and will not abandon us is how we get through those hardships.
ReplyDeleteBook 7 is has a very interesting breakdown. "In this book it is shown that eternal life is not obtained by the worship of Janus, Jupiter, Saturn, and the other select gods of the civil theology." This title by itself would have hooked a lot of people since it mentioned a lot of the Greek gods that were worshipped that the time this was written. Furthermore, it goes into detail about how eternal life can only be given through belief in Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteThere are many reasons that I believe that Agustines's writings are more often quoted and mark a turning point in the church's history. A big part of that turning is related to the protected nature of Christianity at this point. Deep thinkers can work much harder on thought alone when they do not have to fear for their lives. This likely led Agustine to develop dogma for the faith more truly. There are many things that I can't entirely agree with in his original teachings. However, it is still likely that the groundwork he laid pathed the path for future intellectual creations in the field of theology. This means that while he did not directly form all the thoughts that create my current beliefs, he likely led to eventual discoveries just by inferring based on what he wrote.
ReplyDeleteThen leads to the part where we were asked to find something particularly intriguing. For that, I chose book 12, and within that book, I took a set of thoughts from the 17th chapter. What I found was as follows, " For, though His incarnation showed us nothing else, these two wholesome facts were enough, that true divinity cannot be polluted by flesh, and that demons are not to be considered better than ourselves because they have not flesh. This, then, as Scripture says, is the Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:5 of whose divinity, whereby He is equal to the Father, and humanity, whereby He has become like us, this is not the place to speak as fully as I could."
I chose this because this set of ideas represents something significant in our Christian walks. You see, Agustine differed from that of demons, flesh, and God. Here he shows that flesh alone is not necessarily corrupt alone. If that were the case, Christ himself would have been corrupted upon taking on the form of human flesh. This shows that we, in human flesh, are not innately at the same level of evil as that of demons or angels opposed to God. So the way to eternal life is to reject that of the demon and follow the path of God incarnated in the flesh, and in that image is our hope for salvation.
Agustines writings were quite hard to read as I have become accustomed to using Scripture alone to back my beliefs. However, I admire Agustines's abilities to work through complex reasonings of the spiritual life, which cannot be fully known, and the world we see as we see it. So much has unfolded and grown from this reasoning, and I can see why after reading a little of his work. He uses a level of philosophy that was previously unseen.
I would say that much like C.S. Lewis, his initially being an Atheist likely aided in his deep level of reasoning. He was trying to prove these truths to others and had to reason this deeply to convince himself of the truth in Christianity. This reasoning differs from when you must persuade others as you don't just take your beliefs but construct your thoughts from a new reality. Finding new truth is the difference between advancement and the status quo, the ability to find your answer within the already existing answer. Sometimes new solutions are better as they serve to gain better the affection of those who think as you do.
Tanner Simon